High Elf Players

[Heretic]

Are Lothern Seaguard worth the points?

[MountainKing]

Depends on what you do with them.

If you don't plan on them moving, except to add ranks before they are charged, 15 of them on a hill can be scary for just about anything short of the close combat monsters that your repeaters should be whittling down anyway. You are essentially getting a unit of archers and a unit of spearmen for a discount rate. So if you want both of those things, yes they are worth the 16 pts a pop you shell out for them.

If you plan on taking the fight to your enemy, the shooting you get from sea guard will be less affective as you will have the movement penalty and will get no shots at all when they march. In this case you are wasting 5 pts a model and pts are hard enough to come by in an elven army. Not only that, against anything equal to or greater than a dwarf (yes there are one or two things better than a dwarf like heavy cav and daemons) then they will be hard pressed to win combat or even to stay for more than the first turn (though no more so than normal spearmen).

I will admit that I have always had problems with elven close combat infantry (expensive str3, t3, light armor infantry, is a recipe for disaster no matter how many attacks you have). I tend to find that with elves you either want to kill your opponents with shooting or magic or at least heavily armored cavalry. Their infantry are too fragile and will rarely perform well, unless handled with a level of elegance and finesse that still eludes me (one of the downsides of learning on dwarves is suppose).

[Asandiril]

Lothern are worth it, especially if your opponent likes to field Large targets (remember, you can shoot from an extra rank versus Large targets, so on a hill 3 ranks, on the ground 2 ranks). I use them to bulk my Spear line, -AND- help out with my shooting, since they effectively take the place of a spear unit and an archer unit, for about 75% of the cost of one of each.

Mountainking is right, points are scarce in an Elven army, with little or no return in stats. WS and BS 4, Init 5, LD 8... WHEEEEEE! :rolleyes: So we strike better and faster than Chaos Marauders and have one better LD, but cost about 6 points more per model. No real benefit when you're S3 and T3 with Armor 5+ (or 4+ on the ground if you sacrifice our only real benefit: fighting with three ranks of spears {or two if we charge}). Cavalry is key, as well as magic, but even then we're still delicate and can't engage 1:1 with the enemy, we've got to go 2:1 or more; weight of numbers, cancel their ranks, Army Standard and unit standard.

I hope they rethink some things when it comes around time for the High, Dark and Wood Elves to get a revamp. Right now we're too much a finesse army and really nothing we can "finesse" without sacrificing one facet or the other (HTH, Shooting, or Magic)

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

That's definitely one of my biggest peeves about my beloved elves is that we pay so much for infantry that are fast as all Hell but can't go mano-a-mano with most other basic infantry.

But back on topic, I love Sea Guard. They let me take bows without taking archers who, let's face it, get creamed if the enemy survives their shooting.

[Rorschach]

IMHO, sadly, no.

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Wow, Dale. Just, wow. That was deep.

[Laplace]

I agree. They do suck.

[Asandiril]

I guess they do suck... for your opponent. Seth hates them, as does Tony (Seth plays Ogres, Tony Khorne Daemonic Legion). And I supposed they would suck if you couldn't come to terms with a C.A.T. unit (combined arms team).

High Elves have to double up in combat, and must concentrate all shooting, so the Seaguard help with that. I can field 2 Spear units and archer unit and a Seaguard unit and be assured my Core line is solid enough, then the remaining points on 2 Bolt throwers, and either a beefed Silver Helm unit or a Dragon Princes unit. Follow up with either Shadow Warriors or Ellyrian Reavers, and you can work a win by supporting each unit with others. High Elves are a finesse, specialist army, just like Dark and Wood Elves.

It takes time to learn the army, much more time than say Empire or Orcs. If you don't have patience and can learn from your mistakes, do not play this army.

[costampede]

Why would anyone want to play Elves??????

They look funny, are way to skinny, and you can not trust them at all. :D

Know if you want an honorable race go with the mighty Dwarves.

Heck they whooped up on the Elves in the War of the Beard. :cool:

[Asandiril]

Heh... Dwarfs... Cowardly little stubborn lot that steals a crown, then goes and hides under their little hills, calling things "even" over a little beard shaving. Maybe if you kept your nose out of other peoples business, you wouldn't have Grobbi and Skaven swarming up in your little grungy basements...

And that's another funny thing: Goblins Fear Elves (High, Wood, Dark) but feel nothing but glee over Dwarfs (since dey bash 'em up all da time, wots good!).

[ColGreeley]

Wow, the High Elves actually took time to stop washing their hair and pay attention to what is happening in the Warhammer World.

Will wonders never cease?

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Yeah, and once we get the Nemesis Crown, we'll trade it to you for the Phoenix Crown. Honorable my rear end! "Oh yeah, we'll talk peace -- quick, open the gates!"

[costampede]

Was it not the Elves that stab the Dwarves in the back that started the War of the Beard?
We just finished what you started, poor losers. :p

[Asandiril]

That was the DARK Elves, you diminutive dolt... but leave it to a race that denies the existance of their own dark kindred (even in the face of those Hellcannons used by Archaon....) to not be able to tell the differences between Asur and Druchii. And to come into our Phoenix King's court and have the gall to DEMAND restitution and NOT listen to the evidence? Yeah, crawl back into your holes, beardlings, and play with the rats and gobbos, leave the topside to those that have a civilization...

:D

[FormShaper]

High elves vs. Dark Elves... it's easy to tell them apart.

See, both races consist entirely of hot chicks, but the dark elves are hot chicks with fashion sense.

[ColGreeley]

High Elves vs Dark Elves. You know who wins?

The American viewing public! Cuz no matter what happens, ELVES DIE!

[costampede]

That was the DARK Elves, you diminutive dolt... but leave it to a race that denies the existance of their own dark kindred (even in the face of those Hellcannons used by Archaon....) to not be able to tell the differences between Asur and Druchii. And to come into our Phoenix King's court and have the gall to DEMAND restitution and NOT listen to the evidence? Yeah, crawl back into your holes, beardlings, and play with the rats and gobbos, leave the topside to those that have a civilization...

:D

Whats the difference, an Elf is an Elf, they are all the same.:D

Caledor II was definately not wise, by telling the Dwarf king he does not answer demands but grants pleas, that is a very dumb Elf, and the call themselves intelligent.;)

To further show his stupidity he got tired of his generals not getting the job done so he goes and takes command of his forces. "It was his LAST GREAT MISTAKE" ( see it implies he made more than one :) ) "Caledor II charged into the heart of the Dwarf infantry and was cut down by the Dwarf king. the Dwarves took the Phoeonix Crown as payment for the Elves insolence."

[Asandiril]

But see, therein lies the gist:
Elves can ADMIT when we've been wrong (case in point, Caledor II... and Malekith...). But dwarfs on the other hand, they'd rather all die then admit they were ever wrong at any time...

[ColGreeley]

But Dwarfs are never wrong........:D

[Asandiril]

<cough!>Nemesis Crown<cough-cough!>

[ColGreeley]

Lies , propaganda.

[costampede]

But see, therein lies the gist:
Elves can ADMIT when we've been wrong (case in point, Caledor II... and Malekith...). But dwarfs on the other hand, they'd rather all die then admit they were ever wrong at any time...

If the Elves then admitted they were wrong, they should have apologized to the Dwarves and all would be fine. By not doing this they showed the Dwarves that they condoned what had happened. ;)

See it all comes down to the stupidity of Caledor II, maybe if you had a more intelligent leader this would have not happened. :D

Anytime you would like to have a training match against the Dwarves, just send your messanger (the honorable Dwarves will not shave his head or harm him in any way) we will bring toy weapons so your fragile bodies do not get hurt. :cool:

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

You stunties are so full of crap. Probably comes from being at the right height to sniff humanity's rear end ever since Sigmar settled a few of your "grudges."

[ColGreeley]

Just remember who taught you savages how to use black powder and firearms.

I am working on a new list for my dwarfs. So far, I am pretty stoked about it.

[costampede]

You stunties are so full of crap. Probably comes from being at the right height to sniff humanity's rear end ever since Sigmar settled a few of your "grudges."

Maybe Sigmar helped out some, but the dwarves were there in spirit to help him (so to speak). Who made his weapon hmmmmmmmm the Dwarves :p
If it was not for the Dwarven weapon, Sigmar would not be all that he could be. :D

[Asandiril]

LOL!

Yeah, a DWARVEN weapon DWARFS can't wield... along with a crown Dwarfs built that could destroy the world, and DWARFEN strongholds that fell to rats and gobbos... yeah, you're an impressive race alright. No wonder you need black powder...

No one looks to the fact that the High Elves created the vortex that is siphoning away the wild Chaos Magic that could overwhelm the world and destroy it, and they've done it at their own detriment AND have to constantly repulse the daker of our kin lest the world finally fall. And what are you doing about the Lods of the Badlands, creators of the Hellcannons? Oh, that's right... nothing. You'd rather squabble over your little grudges and brag about how good you WERE, when in actuality you wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the Elves or the Humans. It's called denial. When your race can all act like Gotrek, stepping up to what needs to be done, then maybe you'll get to where your vaunted ancestor were.

LMAO! :D ;)

[ColGreeley]

This coming from a race that's biggest crisis is ....."Hmmmmm...shampoo AND conditioner?" Or 'Maybe I should get some highlights."

And what exactly is a LOD? :D

[Warmaster]

Okay I think you all need to put your money where your mouths are. I want to see an Elf vs. Dwarf mega battle, winner gets bragging rights.

[ColGreeley]

We already did it, it was called THE WAR OF THE BEARD. Dwarfs won a minor victory.

[ColGreeley]

Besides, playing requires dice rolling and I suck at dice rolling Rich, I really do!

[costampede]

LOL!

Yeah, a DWARVEN weapon DWARFS can't wield... along with a crown Dwarfs built that could destroy the world, and DWARFEN strongholds that fell to rats and gobbos... yeah, you're an impressive race alright. No wonder you need black powder...

No one looks to the fact that the High Elves created the vortex that is siphoning away the wild Chaos Magic that could overwhelm the world and destroy it, and they've done it at their own detriment AND have to constantly repulse the daker of our kin lest the world finally fall. And what are you doing about the Lods of the Badlands, creators of the Hellcannons? Oh, that's right... nothing. You'd rather squabble over your little grudges and brag about how good you WERE, when in actuality you wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the Elves or the Humans. It's called denial. When your race can all act like Gotrek, stepping up to what needs to be done, then maybe you'll get to where your vaunted ancestor were.

LMAO! :D ;)

We made a hammer we could not use because we made it for a Human. :confused:

Atleast the Dwarves stayed on the main land to help the Humans fight against the evil, unlike the Elves that packed up and left for a secluded island. Now if that does not reek of saying "screw all of you". ;)

The Elves think they are all that, when they are the ones that abandoned the world of men and dwarves. :rolleyes:

The Dwarves know true reason the elves left, the Elves want to rule the world. They leave so nobody can harm them on their island and rebuild, while good battles evil, and when the elves are ready to make their move, BAM they come in and conquer the land and make slaves of everyone. :D

Like I said earlier, which by the way no Elf has accepted, Anytime an Elf would like to have a training match against the Dwarves, just send your messanger (the honorable Dwarves will not shave their head or harm them in any way) the Dwarves will bring toy weapons that kids play with so your fragile bodies do not get hurt. :cool:

[Warmaster]

See and this is why Chaos shall inherit the earth. Dwarf, human, elf, goat, it doesn't matter Chaos will welcome you all with wide open arms.

[ColGreeley]

LOL.

"I for one welcome our Chaos Overlords!"

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Ok stunty. Tell me, when Aenarion, a mortal elf, defeated all four Chaos Gods in single combat thus saving the world before Sigmar's ancestors were even primordial goo, where were you guys? Hmmmm? Probably still trying to learn how to differentiate your men from your women. When the Phoenix Kings ruled over what is now Bretonnia, Estalia, and what is now Naggarond, where were you? Living in a grubby little hole in the ground, hiding from orcs I'd imagine. Oh, and we elves do not need your black powder weapons. We prefer to use weapons that will not blow up in our faces.

Oh, and Sigmar's hammer was not made for him. It was a dwarf king's and he gave it to Sigmar. Learn your own history, shorty!

[costampede]

Ok stunty. Tell me, when Aenarion, a mortal elf, defeated all four Chaos Gods in single combat thus saving the world before Sigmar's ancestors were even primordial goo, where were you guys? Hmmmm? Probably still trying to learn how to differentiate your men from your women. When the Phoenix Kings ruled over what is now Bretonnia, Estalia, and what is now Naggarond, where were you? Living in a grubby little hole in the ground, hiding from orcs I'd imagine. Oh, and we elves do not need your black powder weapons. We prefer to use weapons that will not blow up in our faces.

Oh, and Sigmar's hammer was not made for him. It was a dwarf king's and he gave it to Sigmar. Learn your own history, shorty!

Aenarion probably fought four chaos mortals, and made the rest up about them being gods, that is what a typical elf would do. ;)

ooops, I did not get my history right, but then again when does a dwarf need to study history when we have battles to fight, now this explains why the elves are lousy warriors, they spend to much time with their noses in books reading on how to fight instead of actually doing it. :D

DoomedToRepeatIt, I have made an offer to you elves twice, and have not had anyone accept. The only reason I can come up with is that the elves are afraid to get beat in a training match. All I am asking is for is a fun, friendly match.

[lambobolt]

hey Tony
well if i was there, i would take you up on the training battle, but....

sounds like everyone is too afraid of your khorne demons, or would it be dwarves that you are playing for the training battle? i cant imagine that anyone is afraid to play against dwarves...

[costampede]

yep, it is the Dwarves

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Oh, I'll throw down with you guys any way you want. I'm not too plugged into GH's GW scene, but just give me a shout out sometime in the near future about the when and the where, and I will do my damnedest to meet you on the field of battle.

[costampede]

Now that's what I am talking about. An Elf player not afraid to loose to a Dwarf player. :D

DoomedToRepeatIt:
How about Wednesday 16th, I have this week left for school, and have alot of work to get done and finals to take, but next week I will be ready for a match.

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Wednesdays are bad for me. Better on a weekend.

[ColGreeley]

I am trying to come up with a new Dwarf list, so far it is pretty good but will cost me some $.

[costampede]

Weekends are bad for me, I work every weekend. Maybe I can get the wife to watch the store and I can break away for a couple of hours.

[MountainKing]

Just like an elf to take credit for someone else’s accomplishment. Both the closing of the world ending warp gate and the end of the Dwarven golden age (caused not by their weakened condition but by the slann's earthquakes which remove the dwarven defenses against the scavengers of the underworld) where the actions of the thrice cursed toads, not childish elven mages nor their pathetic armies. Should the fair folk have half the wisdom they profess to possess then they might have realized that.

While Caledor was opening his vortex, where were the dwarves? Grimnir was sacrificing himself before the demon's gate, stopping the hoards of demons from pouring forth into the world of elves and men.

As for a hammer that a dwarf can't use, that is bs. If the dwarves ever found reason to reclaim Ghal Maraz from the sons of Sigmar, it would once again hold its place of honor in dwarven hands. True the everlasting empire lost the ability to forge such artifacts during the cataclysms, but I haven't heard of the elves making anything even close to that power since Vaul left. Still any dwarven smith today can create items which make your cheap list of trinkets look truly pathetic by comparison.

As for goblins fearing elves, only the very arrogant or the very stupid (or in the case of elves maybe both) sight the respect and awe of a craven race of idiots as proof of their superiority. The fear you command in gobos proved really helpful when one actually did decide to show up on your shores and test your metal, didn't it (Grom...cough).

As to the lost clan, we simply refuse to recognize that they are still or ever were (in the metaphorical sense) dal dawi (dwarves), and are thus no more associated to us than a human or a demon or an elf, not that they don’t exist at all. Incidentally, until you refuse such association to your darker cousins you bear not only the responsibility for your own foolish actions (cutting a beard during a diplomatic talk, tisk tisk), but for their cruel ones as well (they are your accepted kin and thus their oaths and debts are yours).

Dwarves don’t need black powder weapons. As the long beards say, there is nothing a cannon can do that a determined dwarf with a hammer can’t accomplish. When we kicked you out of the Old World and back to your little island in the middle of the sea, it was all stone and bolt throwers and righteous retribution. Black powder is a tool nothing more. And as to stability, I have seen more elven mages blow themselves up than any of my well forged cannons.

Without Chaos or Athel Loren to back them up elves really can’t stand their own against anyone but themselves. Why do high and dark elves fight so vigorously half a world away? Because they would loose to anyone else and they know it. Watching elves fight is like watching two floozies slap each other, lots of motion and emotion but very little of real consequence is actually happening.

I don’t care what any other dwarven king or elven prince says, the taking of the phoenix crown has made us far from even. Not till ever ounce of dwarven blood spilt by any elf is matched by an ounce of elven blood, not till every insult is payed for by blood or wealth will any elven oath breaker find welcome in my hold or more than mistrust from my people. Apologies are for the weak and the fey folk have much to pay for.

Most importantly, Dwarves are better than elves and have the fluff to prove it.

[MountainKing]

Just like an elf to take credit for someone else’s accomplishment. Both the closing of the world ending warp gate and the end of the Dwarven golden age (caused not by their weakened condition but by the slann's earthquakes which remove the dwarven defenses against the scavengers of the underworld) where the actions of the thrice cursed toads, not childish elven mages nor their pathetic armies. Should the fair folk have half the wisdom they profess to possess then they might have realized that.

While Caledor was opening his vortex, where were the dwarves? Grimnir was sacrificing himself before the demon's gate, stopping the hoards of demons from pouring forth into the world of elves and men.

As for a hammer that a dwarf can't use, that is bs. If the dwarves ever found reason to reclaim Ghal Maraz from the sons of Sigmar, it would once again hold its place of honor in dwarven hands. True the everlasting empire has lost the ability to forge such artifacts during the cataclysms, but I haven't heard of the elves making anything close to that power since Vaul left. Still any dwarven smith today can create items which make your cheap list of trinkets look truly pathetic by comparison.

As for goblins fearing elves, only the very arrogant or the very stupid (or in the case of elves maybe both) sight the respect and awe of a craven race of idiots as proof of their superiority. The fear you command in gobos proved really helpful when one actually did decide to show up on your shores and test your metal, didn't it (Grom...cough).

As to the lost clan, we simply refuse to recognize that they are still or ever were (in the metaphorical sense) dal dawi (dwarves), and are thus no more associated to us than a human or a demon or an elf, not that they don’t exist at all. Incidentally, until you refuse such association to your darker cousins you bear not only the responsibility for your own foolish actions (cutting a beard during a diplomatic talk, tisk tisk), but for their cruel ones as well (they are your accepted kin and thus their oaths and debts are yours).

Dwarves don’t need black powder weapons. As the long beards say, there is nothing a cannon can do that a determined dwarf with a hammer can’t accomplish. When we kicked you out of the Old World and back your little island in the middle of the sea, it was all stone and bolt throwers and righteous retribution. Black powder is a tool, nothing more. And as for stability, I have seen more elven mages blow themselves up than any of my well forged cannons.

Without Chaos or Athel Loren to back them up, elves really can’t stand their own against anyone but themselves. Why do high and dark elves fight so vigorously half a world away? They would lose to anyone else and they know it. Watching elves fight is like watching two floozies slap one and other, lots of motion and emotion but very little of real consequence is actually happening.

I don’t care what any other dwarven king says, the taking of the phoenix crown made us far from even. Not till ever ounce of dwarven blood spilt by any elf is matched by an ounce of elven blood, not till every insult is paid for by blood or wealth will any elf find welcome in my hold or more than mistrust from my people. Apologies are for the weak and the fey folk have much to pay for.

Most importantly, Dwarves are better than elves and have the fluff to prove it.
(sorry for the length i just haven't posted for a while and had alot to say)

[Laplace]

LOL.

"I for one welcome our Chaos Overlords!"

You should apply to be a news anchor Troy. You'd be perfect!

(Did you intend the quote to be from Kent Brockman?)

[Warmaster]

Does your beard hang low?
Does it dangle to and fro?
Can you tie it in a knot?
Can you tie it in a bow?
Can you sling it on your shoulder?
Like a silly manling soldier?
Does your beard hang low?

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

You site Grom the Paunch as if he had won a major victory, when in fact Eltharion crushed his army in the end.

And I'm not sure why I'm arguing any points with a stubborn, dirty, grimy, uncultured, and uncouth humanoid.

And to prove my point -- across both WH and 40K, how many elven armies are there? High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Eldar, Dark Eldar for 5. How many dwarven armies are there? Oh wait. That's right, they killed off your 40K army. Just one, sorry.

:mad:

[ColGreeley]

Oh but contraire........the Squats are alive and well thank you very much. And how many Elf armies do you really need before you get it right? Quanity over quality? 5 Elf armies doesn't make any of them good. :rolleyes:

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Really? Because my Eldar and my High Elves are just itching for a fight after all this trash-talking.

I think that you guys ought to run a War of the Beard campaign or else some sort of special "grudge match" event so we can clear up this little discussion once and for all.

[ColGreeley]

Let me get my dwarf army ready and we will meet on the battlefield.

(besides it would be fun to play against you) :)

[costampede]

I have been trying to get you elf players to play a game, and now you finally have the courage to come out and play.
You must have read something in one of your books on how to fight or what courage means, us dwarves already know what it means and how to fight because we actually live it in our daily lives. :)
Lmk when a good time is and I will arrange my schedule to be there, no dwarf of mine will back down, any time any where. Unlike you elves (I can not fight except on the weekends) I have to much book reading to do. :D

[DoomedToRepeatIt]

Now you see, the reason why I have not yet stepped up to this challenge in the past is because this particular elf does not play GW games at Haven; I have my own group at another LGS. This affront to elf-kind is simply too preposterous not to answer.