'Ardboyz SEMI-FINALS OCT 11th

[Rorschach]

Welcome to all Ardboyz attending this event! This is the official thread for info and questions.

See the home page of this website for directions to Gamer's Haven and their Phone number. Please call in advance to confirm your attendance - 719-531-9863 (you'll probably speak to Rob or Troy)
Don't forget to bring your Winner's Certificate! Copies and other fascimile's will likely not be accepted!
If you're filling in for a 1st round winner who can't attend, please bring their certificate and a note from them or your local venue confirming your alternate status..

The doors open and event starts at 11AM - Dice usually hit the tables by 11:30. We'll adjust the following schedule as needed to make sure no one is left out - so if we don't start til Noon because of stragglers, just push everything 30 min.

We break for Lunch after the first Round at 2PM. Games resume NLT 3. Final Round should end at 7:30, and everything wrapped up by 8PM.

Please be familiar with the rules here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1860333_40K_Ard_Boyz_Rulz_2008.pdf

and Clarifications here!
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1880139_Ard_Boyz_Scenario_Clarifications.pdf

If you want to lower your risk of using an incorrect list - please send your list in advance to "dale.kunz@gmail.com" and I'll review it for you to check for mistakes. I will be reviewing lists the day of the event, but that takes a while. It would really SUCK to have to pull someone out, or compromise a first Round game, because they goofed on their list.

Should we have an Odd Number of folks, the lowest score in each round will get the bye. Bye's will likely play the House Army, and be credited with a Minor Victory at worst - better if you do better. If there is no House Army available, you will get an automatic Major Victory.

I'll be wandering tables to answer questions and insure WYSIWYG on figures. I'm not a huge stickler on modeling, but if you have ANY doubt, please ask before the event if it is "okay".

We have a local modeled-tree shortage, so if you have nicely modeled trees, please feel free to bring them and show a little early (10AM ish) if possible. In fact ANY terrain loans for the event will be welcome.

Please print out and bring your Army's FAQ with you.

I'll post any changes here as I become aware of them. Any Questions?

[Rorschach]

Oh yeah - Attention Local Players - if you'd like to volunteer to bring and play the House Army, please contact me by PM. I'll consider the first half-dozen or so, and pick one of you. And I'll ask that my 2nd choice show up just in case the 1st guy can't make it. We'll know by Noon whether your services will be needed or not.

You'll be playing a random person first round, and the lowest in each round thereafter. So your army needs to be competent for a 'Ardboyz, but YOU don't need to be ridiculously competitive. "Make em work for it, but keep it FUN" is always my motto for House Armies.

Your reward? You get to play against Nationally-ranked players without spending a dime. If that isn't enough, then you're not the 'Ardboy we're looking for. :-)
Thanks!
Dale

[Warmaster]

Dale if we need it, Rob O'Bryne can bring down some of the convention terrain.

[Rorschach]

Dale if we need it, Rob O'Bryne can bring down some of the convention terrain.

I want to flat out say, "Yes Please!" - but I should probably check to see if we have any confirmed attendance yet beyond the 6 or so I've heard of. :D

[Rob]

We have 18

[barontuman]

I can also bring a LOT of terrain with me (felt and all).

Also, Andy (un-spellable last name) will be attending, and I don't know if he's RSVP'd yet.

[Rorschach]

We have 18

Rich - the answer is then, Yes - please bring terrain by around 10AM if possible.

[Warmaster]

Since the scenarios have been posted I thought I would ask the following question. Scenario 3 is using the standard rulebook dawn of war. There has been a lot of discussion about what that means and I wanted to get some clarification.

In dawn of war you get 1 hq and 2 troop units.

1.)For instance 1hq in rhino, 2 troops in rhino's. Can i place all of those or do I have to choose between the troop squad and the rhino. The rhinos are dedicated transports.

2.) Imperial Guard. Do they get the enitre hq platoon? Do they get to place an entire infantry platoon. Note that the two are worded differently.

3.) Combat Squads. If you want to combat squad a unit does it count as 2 ( or maybe 3 in the case of ravenwing) or does it count as 1 unit.

A lot of people go back to the kill point definition of what a unit is to try to solve the argument but kill points are different so I don't know if that's still feasible.

[barontuman]

Up here, we've argued it extensively and come to the conclusion that it specifically says "units". There is really no arguing that unit is very completely defined, and you're making things up if you define a unit to be a unit and it's transport.

That means that it takes precedence over the guard deployment, and that dedicated transports count as a seperate unit, as they can contest too.

Also, because combat-squading creates a seperate "unit" you could place one Troops (sans transport) choice that has been combat squadded into 2 (not 3) units, as well as an HQ choice.

Hopefully, either we won't have IG opponents, or GW will cover it with a clarification like they did in the previous round.

Well, that's my opinion anyway, and how we play it up here.

Tony

[Rorschach]

Up here, we've argued it extensively and come to the conclusion that it specifically says "units". There is really no arguing that unit is very completely defined, and you're making things up if you define a unit to be a unit and it's transport.

That means that it takes precedence over the guard deployment, and that dedicated transports count as a seperate unit, as they can contest too.


That's how we played it for the 40K Radio event, and how we'll do it Saturday unless GW posts another ruling.

[bigyounk]

OK where are the round 2 scenarios at? Haven't seen them on the GW site.

And as to the unit question it appears the intent of the Dawn of War scenario was 1 HQ choice and 2 Troop choices.

I say this as the beardy rules lawyers out there read WAY to much into the rules and they errated the scenario to read; up to all HQ choices and up to all Troop choices in round 1. This to me seems a temporary fix to this error and am pretty sure a clearer definiton is forthcoming.

I know common sense does not always apply but in terms of game balance 1 squad of guardsmen is not equal to a full squad of tooled up khorne bezerkers. Just my 2 cents on the subject. Remember, on the very first page of the rules it states that the intent of the game is for BOTH players to have fun. Having a Daemon Prince and two squads of Khorne Bezerkers bearing down on a Colonel and 2 squads of Guardsmen is not fun or balanced.

I, for one, will have no problem if my opponent deploys their troop choice in their dedicated transport or their full infantry platoon if they so wish. But we will see how the clarifications read.

[Javin]

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2010023_ArdBoyzSemisScenarios.pdf

Hope this helps.

[Rorschach]

Having a Daemon Prince and two squads of Khorne Bezerkers bearing down on a Colonel and 2 squads of Guardsmen is not fun or balanced.

If the rule said "slots" or "choices" , then one could deploy Transports and Platoons, etc. But it says "Units", and GW is pretty clear on that in the new rules.
Now a Colonel and his Command Squad are ONE unit, so you could have 3 squads out there. And nothing says you can't deploy way the heck back in your zone, essentially surrounding and mauling the Berserkers and DP as everything else arrives.

[barontuman]

And as to the unit question it appears the intent of the Dawn of War scenario was 1 HQ choice and 2 Troop choices.

<snip>

I know common sense does not always apply but in terms of game balance 1 squad of guardsmen is not equal to a full squad of tooled up khorne bezerkers.

Well, I must be one of those "beardy rules lawyers" because in game terms, I can tell you that 2 command squads, 12 infantry squads, 2 remanants squads and a command platoon, are MORE than a match for any other 2 troops and 1 HQ choice in the game.

Believe me, I've had it done to me. And before you say that nobody would do it, consider that you get it all for a mere 5 Kill Points, and you've got 14 scoring units that are almost impossible to kill completely. And if that choice was an Armored Fist or Armored Company unit, then it would be much more even. Finally, remember that the scenarios attempt to hose each specific type of army in one of the scenarios. If you play a stand-and-shoot, you'll be hosed in this scenario. If you're playing troop heavy, you'll be hosed in another. If you're playing elite heavy, then you'll get hosed in the one where your troops start off the table. Every army has something to complain about in one of the scenarios, and I believe that that is the entire point.

Tony

[SgtBrowncoat]

So who won?

[Rorschach]

In the last round, we saw a classic 3rd Place Sneak to win. :-) The two top players (Rich and Rob O'Byrne) were evenly matched and fought to a Minor Victory for Rich, while the 3rd ranked Blood Angels player (with only 2 Troop Choices!) all but wiped out his Ork opponent. So he got ahead for the win by ONE point.

1st - Adam Tricola - Blood Angels - Laramie, WY
2nd - Rich Johnson - Sisters of Battle - Aurora, CO
3rd - Kris MacLennan - Chaos - Longmont, CO
4th - Nathan Rekauf - Eldar - Longmont, CO
5th - Andy Shellenberger - Dark Angels - Ft Collins, CO
6th - Jason benner - (Orange) Marines - Montana
7th - Xavier Feldman - Ultramarines - Colorado Springs, CO
8th - Rob O'Byrne - Eldar / Harlequins - Denver, CO
(note - 4th through 8th were all tied, and ranks went by VPs)
9th - Stuart Lowery - Chaos - Colorado Springs, CO
10th - Shawn Huss - Eldar - Casper, WY
11th - Nick Herrera - Orks - Longmont, CO
12th - Jesse Youngkin - White Scars - Kansas
13th - Clint Finnell - Orks - Kansas City, Missouri
14th - Darren Hutchinson - Tyranids - Texas
15th - Randy Stricker - Dark Angels - Wyoming
16th - Tim Abshire - Necrons - Wyoming
17th - Andrew Barrick - White Scars - Montana
18th - Jason O'Brien - Tau - Wyoming
19th - Sean Slimak - Chaos - New Mexico
20th - Josh Meismer - Dark Angels - Montana

Thanks for all who attended! (And sorry if I misspelled any names...)

I have some after action notes to share as well:
-- Awesomely, there were surprisingly few rules disagreements that I saw, let alone out right tensions. Except for this next bit...

-- If you are wandering the store watching Tournament games, DO NOT KIBBITZ - do not engage the players in unprompted conversations, do not point out or ask about rules situations. In short, do not delay or distract from their game AT ALL. If you are a player, for your opponent's sake, do not engage kibbitzers and slow things down or distract. There will always be some distractions, cell calls, etc, but the point is to minimize these, especially in the last turns of a game. If you feel there's an outside delaying factor at work, call me over and (privately if more diplomatic) ask that the distractions be removed.

-- This next is not critical of any players from Saturday, because GW doesn't have any actual rules for forfeits and concessions. So here's mine -
If you have clearly lost, and concede the game, DO NOT automatically write in all the Max points for your opponent. I'd prefer if you fight to the last man, but if you must stop and pick up for whatever reason, give only what points could obviously be won in the next turn. Do not force the judge to "recreate" your game and figure out what actually could have happened. Do not count a unit well out of reach as "dead" (nor can you voluntarily flee). Read the Bonus Points carefully - even a Massacre victor may not have got them all.

Thanks!
Dale