Chaos Tzeentch Mortals 2000pt army list

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

Hi all, this is a army list i came up with for my upcoming tzeentch magic heavy mortals. Could you please tell me if it's legal, what to change about it to make it more effective, just plain stupid things, and something i forgot to write that is important to said unit caused by magic or whatever, and a over all opinion. thanks!:)

1 Chaos Lord @ 440 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; General; Lore of Tzeentch; Chaos Armour
Biting Blade
Power Familiar
Bane Shield

1 Exalted Chaos Champion @ 195 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Lore of Tzeentch; Chaos Armour
Dispel Scroll

14 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch @ 257 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Heavy Armour; Shield: Standard

1 Champion

14 Chosen Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch @ 359 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Chosen Unit; Shield; Standard

1 Champion

14 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch @ 269 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard

1 Champion

4 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch @ 225 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Barding; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard

1 Champion

5 Chaos Steeds

3 Chosen Chaos Knights of Tzeentch @ 240 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; Barding; Chosen Unit; Shield; Standard

1 Champion

4 Chaos Steeds

Casting Pool: 14

Dispel Pool: 6

Total Army Cost: 1997

[MountainKing]

It is a little smaller model count wise than I would advise, but then most chaos armies with chosen are. I would see if you could get rid of the biting blade, one of the champions or even unmark a unit (14 power dice might be a little excessive considering you get at most 6 spells {i think}, some of which you may not be able or wish to cast) and give all of your units musicians. You only have to run once because the other guy has a tambourine before you see the optional musician as mandatory. Also can you take chosen knights in units of less than 5?
Other than that it looks like a fairly tough list. Strong center and decent flank support.

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

I got to be loyal to my god(lol) so they must all bear the mark. I have 14 dice, to completely destroy any peoples chances of countering my spells with dispell dice. yes one squad is 4 men, i had a points issue. Yes i have six spells. So i should get rid of Biting blade (Screwing my general in melee sorta) Add musicians to each squad?

[lambobolt]

as david was saying, the list isnt legal as is, you will have to change a few things. the knights minimum unit size is 5, so you have to have 5 of them, whcih means you have to adjust the others. musicians means having a musician in your command group. a command group is comprised of standard, musician and champion. you can have any of those to most units. the musician is important because if combat resolution is a tie, and you have a musician and your opponent doesnt, then you win combat by 1. and with as few models as you get in most chaos units (because they are expensive points per model), the musician is usually a good idea.
ya, having a lot of magic power dice may be a good thing, but you have to have casters to use them. your exalted hero with mark of tzeench only counts as a level 2 caster, which means the most he can use to cast a spell is 3 dice. and with 2 spells, that means 6 dice with him, max. that is assuming you get two good spells with him that you can cast each turn. if not, then your level 4 lord has a lot of dice to use. he can use up to 5 dice per spell, so you can go through dice quickly enough, but that also greatly increases the chances of miscasting. and the new miscast tables are brutal!
So, you have to bring your knight units to minimim of 5 models to make them a legal unit, whcih means you may have to drop a unit of warriors to get them up to legal size. plus add in musicians. then you have 2 units of warriors, 2 units of knights. that makes it pretty hard to win a battle because you can quickly be overwhelmed by larger forces.
i would say drop the chosen from the warriors and increase their unit size. yes, you get fewer attacks per model, but if you are getting the charges off then you can make up for the fewer attacks. same for the chosen knights, and give them the war banner, which adds +1 to combat resolution, because they will probably need it to survive.
i think you will find that this army comp is extremely tough to play, beause you will get overwhelmed and outmaneuvered by most other armies. think about dropping to only one unit of knights and adding in some mauraders, whcih are cheap bulk units. and a chaos spawn is awesome for the points, even if you give it the mark of tzeench.
i would also suggest dropping the chaos lord and replace him with two exalted champs, whcih would give you a total of 3 casters rather than just 2. just something to toy around with and see how it works.
bottoom line, start playing some small scale games to get the feel for how the army plays. you can buy some warriors because you will always use them, and a block of knights if you want. with characters, that brings you almost to 500pts.
im also a chariot fan, and think you could use the extra punch that they provide when they charge
later jeff

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

Thanks Jeff, but i'm looking at my chaos warbook and it says the minimum unit for knights is 4..So did i get a misprint or something? Also, i have my lord, which i plan on converting heavly as he is a custom character of mine, also, i'm not a big fan of marauders because i can't paint flesh at all, and their not warrior of chaos>< lol. Well, i'll tweak it a bit and maybe post another in a day or so.

[lambobolt]

wow, my bad, it does say min uni size is 4. i guess ive never seen anyone go with just 4. for one reason, if you lose one model, you have to test for panic. granted, your testing on 8s, but still, at some point you will fail those tests. so going with 5 makes you lose two models before you test. plus, you will probably need the extra attacks, 4 knights (4 attacks) hitting on 3s means 2 attacks, strength 5 means probably wounding on 3s or 2s, so should ave 2 wounds. then add 4 horses (4 attacks), hitting on 4s wiht strength means 1-2 more wounds. still not enough to win combat against a rank and file unit unless you hit it in the flank. so just something to think about. but bottom line, is playtesting to see what works for you.
i understand not wanting to paint mauraders, im exactly the same way. but if you know you will be building the army to favor one of the gods, you can always paint them in that color, so mutations with blue or yellow skin rather than the normal flesh color. and i think after you playtest for a while you will find you need that cheap bulk unit because warriors are so expensive points to model. but hey,. it just comes down to how you play the army, so you may not need them at all after all!
later

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

Kk, i'll probably proxy them with a friend. Like i said, i'll try tweaking my list..Alot.


One question here tho. Is the only difference before a level 4 and level 2 wizard or whatever just the points and casting dice? Or is their something else?

[lambobolt]

the level 4 is a lord, the level 2 is only a hero (exalted champion), so the stats are different, point costs are different, level 2 can only have 50pts of magic items, etc

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

Oh..lame! thanks agian.

[Warmaster]

Also a big difference a Lvl 3-4 wizard adds 2 dispel dice a lvl 1-2 add's only one dispel dice.

Chosen Warriors Are extremley expensive I wouldn't recommend larger than 10, you are buying them for their additional attacks and paying extra for ranks really hurts so usually you use them as a flanking force. This is where the cheap marauders come in, take the charge with the marauders and then charge the flank with the warriors.

14 casting dice with 6 spells is going to be tough, especially if you want your heroes to get stuck into hth. You are looking at about a 50% split on spells that can and cannot be caste in hth. You may think about dropping a unit to add in a chariot and another character. Another option would be to add a spell familiar to your level 2 or your level 4 wizard, this will give them another spell to cast.

Banner of Wrath is always fun in magic heavy chaos lists.

If you don't want to paint marauders, chaos hounds also work well for a mass unit to give you outnumber bonus and ranks.

And if you are going for the complete and total magic domination invest the points in the staff of change. For 65 points it's arguably one of the best priced items in the game, especially because of the new miscast tables.

[lambobolt]

Hey Rich,
Good call on teh staff of change, i completely forgot about that. that is a must if you are going for the magic domination! But i still say you need another caster to spread out the power dice, even put one of them in the chariot so it can go hog wild in hand-to-hand!
chaos hounds are very useful for their cheap points, and as rich pointed out they are easier to paint then mauraders. but really, i think you wll find that mauraders will be worth including in your army. and as i said before, there are ways around having to paint their flesh. you cuold even use different models for them, like Charles did using lord of the ring figures that didnt have alot of flesh.
see you wed night
jeff

[Blackraine]

I'd probably go with less casting dice and larger units. Consolidate some of your multiple units into single larger units instead. 12 casting dice is still pretty respectable for only having two mages, especially since most armies have to dedicate all 4 of their character slots to casters to achieve the same dice pool.

As it stands right now, you're relying on your spellcasting to carry the weight of your army, which may or may not happen. 14 man units of Chaos Warriors may seem pretty solid, but a lot of armies would have no problem destroying a unit or two a turn even before getting into close combat (Dwarfs, for instance).

As a minimum, I'd probably combine the two units of Chaos Knights into a single 10-man unit (since you'll have points from not buying a second mark/command). This will keep your cavalry from getting broken in combat quite as easily, since a 4 or 5 man unit probably won't last past the initial combat, and will lose very quickly to attrition.

[Warmaster]

Small units of hounds also work well as flanker's for removing pesky rank bonuses for your armies.

And another option, if you don't mind mixing it up a bit. Beastmen are very cheap and versatile and are a substitue if you don't like marauders.

Bye the way you can win with all chaos warriors and knights you just have to be very carefull about anchoring a flank and picking and choosing your fights. But if you do stay with the all warrior/knights list, I would recommend some chariots.

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

Alright thanks all (agian), i will take all advice to heart.

[Cpt_NinjaPants]

The staff of change, was looking at that, but to me it seems kinda of pointless for 65 points, unless i mis interpeted it. One time a battle i can reroll dispell dice, if i get irresistable force, then the staff is useless. So did i miss something here or what?

[Warmaster]

It's not once per battle. It's every time you roll the dice. It work's for casting and dispell. If you get irresistable on the dispell it doesn't burn out, it only burn's out when you get an irresistable for casting.