Eldar Troops

[smileytheelf]

So, what do that numbers look like for effectiveness for 120 storm guardians running across the table with Eldravatar for the ultimate tie up and then just using your other slots to grab all of the objectives? I mean, sure, they are just storm guardians, but how much firepower does it take to bring down 120 fearless storm guardians? And you figure move 6+fleet and you just conga line to keep one guy within eldravatar range. It would only be a little over half your points at 1850 for the guardians, so you could easily through in some fire prisms, or whatever for taste.

(this thought brought to you by complaints about Eldar not taking enough troops).

[TommySalami]

I like it :).

[march10k]

Hehehe...or 150 IG conscripts with 3 independent comissars (LD 6 till they fail a morale test, then the commie executes a model, the failed test becomes a passed test, and then the platoon uses the commie's leadership as long as the he is alive)...I field a unit of 50, and it's bad enough...costs 300 points per 50, and you have to field a normal guardsman platoon for each conscript platoon, at a minimum cost of 160 each...that's 225 guardsment for 1380 points, 1420 if you take the cheapest available HQ, leaving 300 points for 2-3 pieplates, depending on what sort you buy, and 30 points to buy heavy bolters or flamers for the "normal" IG squads. 230 infantry and 3 pieces of ordnance for 1750 points...SOOOPER-cheese that breaks all stereotypes of how cheesiness is linked to not taking enough troops.

[smileytheelf]

With the conscripts, can he just keep executing? Or is it only one execution, because if so, that is cool, but not that cool. Half of why this is so jank is because they are all fearless. Period. And you will never outnumber them, so once they get in combat, they don't really have to win, just outlast.

[Asandiril]

Commissars fall under the "Advisors" heading on p.40 Codex: IG and can only "execute" officers or sergeants, then assume command of the unit, thus using their LD. After that, they can't execute anyone else. They do add +1 to the officer's/sergeant's LD stat, though, per their rules on p.41. That's the latest edition (circa 3rd Ed. Codex: IG).

Further, you can't have more Conscript Platoons than Infantry Platoons (sidebar, 'Conscript Platoon,' p.45): one per normal Infantry Platoon.

Ian:
Sounds nasty, though you have to watch out for those scenarios where it specifies "Troops" unit as objective holders (usually only at special tournaments like Adepticon). Though 120 Fearless Storm Guardians (with Warlocks with Conceal...) would be not nice to face... hmmmm :D

[MyMyst8k]

Ian, we should try out this list and keep a running tally of how many of 'the dying race' kick the bucket. If only to see a tear well up in Asandiril"s eye :D

[smileytheelf]

I'm thinking skip the locks even. You gotta figure that to kill it you have to have marines fire 272ish bolter shots at it. Thats alot of bolter and most lists nowadays are just not tooled out to deal with hordes, especially not like that. In escalation you pretty well have it made because while you won't be fearless, you will be across the table after taking less fire, giving eldravatar plenty of time to reach the tail end of the conga line. I'm thinking maybe drop it to 5 squads, and then run a pair of super falcons with fire dragons inside and maybe a squad of banshees or harlies for mop up.

[smileytheelf]

heh. I think I have that many orcs. Want me to put something together for friday?

[Asandiril]

LOL! It's all propaganda, mate. We're not a dying race, just like the Flesh Tearers have more than 400 'Marines left... After all, what kind of threat is a dying race, right? Just leave them alone and they'll eventually peter off into dodo-ville... :D

[march10k]

Commissars fall under the "Advisors" heading on p.40 Codex: IG and can only "execute" officers or sergeants, then assume command of the unit, thus using their LD. After that, they can't execute anyone else. They do add +1 to the officer's/sergeant's LD stat, though, per their rules on p.41. That's the latest edition (circa 3rd Ed. Codex: IG).

Further, you can't have more Conscript Platoons than Infantry Platoons (sidebar, 'Conscript Platoon,' p.45): one per normal Infantry Platoon.


As for the first part, that's almost correct. The codex says they execute the "leader", without any sort of restriction. So who leads a platoon of conscripts? I dunno, take your pick of 4-point models! It is true that they only conduct one summary execution, after that, the unit is LD 10...not quite fearless, but still pretty HARD, especially when their base LD was 5! I'd much rather only have one execution and be LD 10 than be LD 6 with an execution every other phase.

For the second part, that's exactly what I'm saying, 3 minimized infantry platoons and 3 maximized conscript platoons comes out to 225 models, add in a junior officer HQ choice for the army, and it's 233 (sorry, forgot to account for three comissars in the first post) models with plenty of points left for ordnance.

Recommended doctrines are conscript platoons (ok, mandatory), independent comissars (ok, again, mandatory), close order drill (yes, that's 50 4-point models with initiative and WS 4, thanks for asking!), iron discipline (have the 5-man officer squads follow behind, and the conscripts will find themselves testing at an unmodified LD 10 more often than not, and regrouping below half...pity to see a 23-man unit not able to regroup!), or chem-inhalers (also gets rid of some negative LD modifiers for morale tests), and another one of your choosing, if you choose one at all. No benefit in not taking a 5th doctrine, but for this army, it'd be hard to find one that actually does anything useful for you.

[smileytheelf]

The issue with this is that they don't fleet. One of the biggest reasons hordes are viable is that they can't get into combat. With the conscript list all I have to do is just keep walking away and try to set up shots that are beneficial to me. And the other problem is that you aren't going to actually win close combat all that often. Which is why fearless is so powerfull with that model count because it means you can just outlast them. With LD10, yes its high, but you test on it enough times and you fail, and get run down or escorted off the table. The other question is can the conscripts take meltaguns? Storm guardians can which means you can't try to wall them off as effectively.

[march10k]

conscripts can, but the have BS2...but good luck walling a 50-man unit. Worst case, put a powerfist on the comissar.

As for the fleet thing...that's a valid point, but there are enough turns in a game for conscripts to walk from the front edge of my deployment zone to the back edge of yours. As for walking away, with 230 models walking towards you, you'll run out of places to run to by turn 3 at the latest.

As for winning close combat, conscripts actually SHINE in close combat...they hit on 4s against almost everyone (WS3 with close order drill), and even if you charge them, 50 models is a lot of attack rolls, though there are generally "only" about 30 of them close enough to be "in the fight" on the first round of combat. They'll chew through about 5 marines per turn in assault...and woe be unto the fool that lets them into flamer range...that's either 5 templates and doubling up the attacks on the charge, or 5 templates and up to 90 lasgun shots. And there are three of these units, backed by 75 "normal" guardsmen.

As for being fearless, that would be a nice bonus, and the elves are of course more than twice as capable as the conscripts, so point for point, your army will probably do slightly better (especially before you take the ordnance on my side into account), but conscripts don't take leadership tests very often, and it's pretty hard to get them to the point where their LD10 starts dropping.

I just like the thought of putting 230 infantry on the board and still having room for a couple pie plate chuckers. That's just way cooler to me than 120 fearless infantry.