what is army release order

[lambobolt]

So, rumor has it that the high elves will be released in Nov. but do any of you that scour the other gaming threads know what the release order is for the armies? is there anything between now and the high elves in nov?

im guessing that the dark elves, vampire counts, skaven and high elves are all high on the list to get redone.
later
jeff

[Rorschach]

Last I had heard was that Skaven and VCs were actually next. But that was before High Elves cam out of the blue, so it's reasonable to think they've bumped Dark Elves up in the queue as well.

It's been a while now since the Orcs, so they're a bit behind on any sort of book release schedule as it is...

[CJSmith]

All I remember reading about is that Vampire Counts will be after the High Elves. I just wished they would do the older lists first (Vampire Counts and Dark Elves mainly) before jumping ahead, much like the Ogre Kingdoms before the Wood Elves.

I imagine that other than the few new Orc, Dwarf, and Empire releases (that I know of so far) there will be no new fantasy army during the summer with the campaign and all. I'm just interested in seeing just how they redo the High Elves (both rules and figures), but wished Vampire Counts would be redone first as pretty much all of their figures are older and definetely need something new done to them.

[Laplace]

Woohoo! My High Elf army now may become competitive!

[konaboy]

I'm personally hoping for either skaven or VC next. That way I can keep using my current skaven army with a new army book or have my excuse to get a third army with the VC.

[Ze_Sexy]

I liked the latest VC book. That new border looks really sharp, and there were no new rules to learn. :p

Seriously though I am getting tired of waiting for the Vampires to get something. Most of the models are dumb looking, and the list is pretty vanilla. The Sylvania list is good, but not in the flavor of the original.

[Rorschach]

Best way that GW could get me back to staunch loyalism is a new Skaven book with better rules and options, and a new VC book with better minis and magic.

:-)

[lambobolt]

Come on Dale, that is all it would take? if that is the case, i wouldnt count on it. somehow GW doesnt follow what would logically be the best for the game. For example, in my opinion, here is the run down on what they should do:

There are several armies that NEED to be updated. In my opinion, skaven, vampire counts, hihg elves, dark elves, tomb kings all need to be updated. I know, some of you will cry out 'why chaos and tomb kings, they already have new books." ya, but they need work for the same reasons as the others. Im not saying tomb kings should be next, but they do need fixing.

So lets look at the next aspect: playability. Just look at the local area for examples. How many people do we have playing skaven ( atleast 3), vampires (I think I was the only regular player, but several showed up at rogue traders, so count as 3), high elves (only jason of late, a couple others used to play them but they quit playing), dark elves (other than me and Stephan, don’t know any others), tomb kings (ernie got rid of his, so did Sanger I think, so just Dan R and me played them in tourneys, a couple new guys starting to learn them). So, there are players playing each of those armies. But are they really playable as written. For skaven, we have seen tim Merkle win an RT with his, Darren has done quite well with his horde version, and David oue is getting into the more beatdown version of skaven. Vampires havent had much success winning anything. Even last Tacticon in denver, there were 4 of us VC players (and the other 3 of them had almost identical army comps, go figure). But as Seth I think said, they really need to improve the army unit choices to make them playable (note im talking playability, not competitiveness right now). High elves are playable right now, but they tend to be sort of vanilla, most people using the same unit choices (mainly because some of the others suck). So playability is not high for them. Dark elves, not real playable either at this point. And tomb kings, well they certainly are not all that playable either because of the point costs and choices available to them. So if you go by playability, I would say the order should be something like this: dark elves, vampire counts, tomb kings, high elves, skaven.

So now, competitiveness. How well does the army compete against the newer releases. Well, as we all seem to agree, the vampire counts as written right now just are not competitive at all, and badly need help. High elves can be competitive, but you need an experienced player to do so. Skaven are one of the most difficult armies to master, thus are not competitive to beginners. Tomb kings can be competitive, but they are immediately written up as cheesy army comp in order to be competitive. Dark elves have enough choices that they can be competitive, but are like high elves, they require a lot of finesse and thus an experienced player to be competitive (which explains why I sucked so bad with them in the campaign…). So for competitiveness, the order would be: vampire counts, skaven, high elves, tomb kings, dark elves.

Notice, I am really bored at work rihgt now, so ill continue. So lets talk aobut the product line, the figures available right now. This is tough because all of these armies badly need new figures, so don’t know that I could pick out any one that is worst than the others. Could be a push overall. But I think that skaven have some of the worst overall figures right now, and there is so much possiblity for updating them like the recent figure lines. Same for vampires because there is so much possibility for converting. But if you just look at the figures as is, the high elves are very bland, which is too bad because they should really stand out, like what they did with the lord of the rings elves. So order would be; high elves, skaven, vampires, dark elves, tomb kings

Need to be re-written to go with new rules; this category is to see how the army book and specific rules jive with the current rules. Start with high elves. They don’t have a lot of army specific rules, except they can relly get rid of the crappy way of determining who the general is. Tomb kings magic is completely different than the normal rules, the new swarm rules for line of sight affect tomb swarms, and skirmish rules apply to carrion. Vampires-the swarm rules as tomb swarm, but they already lost wounds for combat so that doesn’t matter here or with tomb kings. Skaven probably had the most of their own specific army rules, but those all fit skaven so don’t know that they need to change to balance them with the new rules. So again, not really any one or two armies jumping out, except the rumored fixes for high elves definitly make them a better army and likely to see different army comps. So ill give them an edge for now, with tomb kings in close second.

Ok, so if you combine all those things to gether, it would looks something like this for the need of revision: vampire counts, high elves, skaven, tomb kings, dark elves. But of course, that is just my little opinion. So go ahead, everyone throw darts at me…just don’t spit on me.

[konaboy]

Very good and logical way of looking at the armies Jeff. And yes, it looks like you really were bored at work! :)

Then of course there is the illogical way of looking at it - purely personal reasons. For example, I would like the skaven to be updated obviosuly, since that is what I'm playing right now. But in the same vein, with the update would be new and updated models, which I would like to buy to go with the new rules, but wouldn't since I already have what I need.

Then there is just waiting for whatever the new release will be and go with it, since that seems to be what GW will hope every one will do. So if I wanted to start a new army, I could just wait and go with that one since it would be the most recent updates.

But I would rather go with an army that I like to play, even if it is a little outdated. And then if it does get an update, all the better.

Of course none of that made sense, so I'll just go and paint the 500 models I have left to finish my skaven...:)

[lambobolt]

well if we go with purely personal reasons, im still kinda up in the air. i would love to see them update the vampire counts since i play them alot. but if they update them, then it means i have to buy more vampire counts figures and paint them, and i already have a painted VC army. so i would rather have them go with something that i dont have painted, like high elves or dark elves, so it would give me an excuse to start on them. but i dont have a skaven army, so a new skaven book might be just the excuse i need to start skaven right? that too would be bad since i would have to buy the entire army rather than just buying a new unit or two like i would have to do for elves or VC. so, i guess what that means is i dont really care....but really i want VC next beause i think they need the most improvement to be playable in the RTs

[ColGreeley]

VC would make sense to be the next one updated. It has been awhile.

[Rorschach]

Good thoughts, guys. Here's my rationales. An Army needs updating for two reasons: Bad Rules or Bad Figs. Normally figs could be released on their own, but GW is committed Business-wise to only releasing new Plastics with a new ! book.
So let's look at the armies in question:

Skaven - Some decent, but now *wow* figs. Rules work, but only for ONE army comp, the SAD. Magic items suck.
High Elves - Again, decent but not great figs, and really only the Cav army is competitive.
Dark Elves - All over the damn plac in figs and rules, and living off one old WD issue is no place to be.
Chaos - Some wonderful figs, and many wonderful army comps. But some really BAD figs (Minotaurs, Ogres) and a real lack of good figs for certain chaos powers. Everything customizes great for Khorne and Nurgle is usually the rule, but Tzeentch and Slaanesh require prodigious skills.
Tomb Kings - Powerful Magic, all but immune to the new system Magic nerfs. Some units remain uncompetitive since original design.
Vampire Counts - All over the place on design and figs. Almost no one comp that is competitive. Way behind the curve on magic design.

So, my ranks would be:
1 - Vampire Counts - Most in need of overhaul. Only delay if waiting for more Lich Army ideas either combined in or separate book. I'd like to see two books back to back almost: Vampire Counts and Lich Lords.
2 - High Elves/ Dark Elves - Again, back to back releases, clean em up, and make both as competitive and nifty as Dark Elves. Make their Magic as scary nearly as Lizardmen. The only reason they're ahead of Skaven is because Elves are a "core" GW army and need to be right.
3 - Skaven - Better models and characters. Bring back the Doomwheel and Verminlord. Make the Clans work so they;re more than a one note army.
4 - Chaos - Make sprues for each chaos power. Clean up Daemons and Magic. BETTER FIGS!
5 - Tomb Kings - fix those "coaster" units, and make heroes in Chariots more viable. Mesh with the Lich Lords book.

Now if I was running GW, all of that would be 7 Army books an d fig releases in 3 years. At the current rate, we'll be lucky to see them in 7.

[ColGreeley]

Dale, if you were running GW, we would definitely need to talk....... ( evil laugh)